Author Topic: Dream Ghost  (Read 5731 times)

helene

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • My Dad
    • View Profile
Dream Ghost
« on: February 07, 2012, 01:51:10 PM »
Last night I dreamt about Lesley. Me: lost in a long hallway filled with people, trying to make my way through to somehow find a way out when there, way down at the other end in amongst the congestrion of strangers stood Lesley. Her bullet-stare shoots across the expanse straight at me boring into me. I am helplessly caught in her phosphoric-acid eyes, her eerie, frozen grin reeking of death. In fear I turn away only to see her appear again somewhere else. Lesley: flashing on and off in different parts of the crowd always staring mockingly at me as if to say: "See: I'm dead adn I can seeeeeeeee you!" She's scaring the shit out of me getting a real kick out of the way she can appear and disappear. Closer she comes, her stare cutting through my psyche like a buzz-saw while oppressive subway rush-hour crowds are oblivious to this cat-and-mouse game occurring right in their midst until suddenly Lesley is gone. I throw panicked glances straight ahead, to the left, to the right and I see nothing, acute fear rising like bile in my throat beacuse I know she's out there somewhere! Gut instinct tells me to look behind so, whirling around, I see Lesley standing right there, her huge, looming face silently laughing with an unmoving grin, her gimlet-eyes, like the ends of two gun-barrels, clamped, vice-like, onto mine while I scream my endless scream caught in - what - a dream?!

Helene


Helene & Lesley

browneyedgirl

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 09:18:42 AM »
Whoa, Helene, that is super heavy and intense....are you okay?  My goodness!!! 
Tony Repola 07/20/66 03/29/09
I know you are fishing in the oceans and streams of heaven

helene

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • My Dad
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 11:57:30 AM »
Yeah, this freaked me out for days! However, I am beginning to think this dream represents my own fears and horrors about death and also about aspects of my relationship with Lesley and hers with me that were very complex because of the extremely broken and troubled family we came from. I will most likely eventually elaborate on this more in the Complicated Grief Thread.

Thank you for your compassion and concern. Nightmares are horrific and stay with one for a long time. The creepy, frightening feeling of that 'dream' - nightmare - is still with me no matter how logically I attempt to analyze it.

With love,
Helene.


Helene & Lesley

jasonkl

  • nospam
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2012, 09:13:27 PM »
Helene
I had nightmares for weeks reliveing the night I found my wife over and over again. Sometimes I am able to revive her only to loss her again later in the dream. These dreams were haunting me for a while. I have found if I talk to her before I go to sleep and think about a good memeory the nightmare does not come or at least I do not remember it when I wake up. I hope this helps.

Jason

helene

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • My Dad
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 02:04:02 PM »
Hi Jason,

Thank you for that. With dreams like that one I had about Lesley, and what with other 'stuff' that I've been going through lately, I really have almost been completely convinced that I'm  - cracking up! Also....after Lesley died days went by, then weeks, then months, now its turning into years and that was one of the first real dreams I totally and vividly remembered that I had about Lesley. I saw a grief book in the library about grief-dreams (can't remember the title), but I shrank when I looked at it and thought to myself: 'Why  am not having dreams about Lesley?! Am I a bad person? I think I am.'

You wrote that you dreamt about the night you found your wife and that in your dream you tried to revive her...this tells me of the trauma you have suffered. I did not discover Lesley but you discovered your wife. I can absolutely relate to the trauma that you must have gone through though because, Lesley lived with my husband and I for 3 years - in a separate suite we had in our house. I knew before she moved in that she had a problem with seizures but not to the extent that I would learn after she moved in to the upstairs of our house. She had them in her apartment. She had them in the bathroom. She had them in the hallway. She had them part way down the stairs. More often than not, I was there, at home, to hear the crashes and could be there with her when she awoke. More and more - and this is a very LONG account and I can only say so much right now - I always feared dreadfully that one day Lesley would have a seizure that would be her last.  The fact that she died alone in a rooming house bathroom - WITHOUT anyone there to save her - (because I wansn't there - and therein, as Shakespear put it so well - therein lies the rub - I was not there - I let her be lone in a rooming house and I let her - m older sister Lesley DIE ALONE BY SEIZURE IN A BATHROOM AND I'M GUILTY!!!

Will we ever be able to forgive oursleves - ?! (And I haven't written about how horribly I failed my Dad who died of acancer at only age 46.)

I know one thing - and that is how to punish myself. But what does that prove or solve in the end? It won't bring my sister or father bacvk, that's for sure, - but I don't know what else to do. Thank you again for sharing such difficult adn shattering memories Jason.  PS sorry for typos.


Love, Helene


Helene & Lesley

browneyedgirl

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 04:09:15 PM »
(((((helene))))

Please know that my heart is with you.  So often I think of my brother, who died of a pill overdose, dying all alone by himself, in his bed, ALONE, when me....no wait...my family...no wait.... everyone....no..... SOMEONE, should have been there to help him.  Not the same circumstances as with Lesley, but I felt I could relate to that.  

NO.  NO. I will never forgive myself for not doing what needed to be done to save my brother's life.  And I have to live with that, and sometimes it eats at me....and I have to think that I can only change things moving forward....but you know what?!  It doesn't make the pain or the guilt go away.  We can say "Oh, they wouldn't want you to be feeling this way, etc" - hell I have even said it on this forum, but you can't stop what's in your heart.  

And you have a good and beautiful heart, helene....I know it.  The pain of missing our siblings lives there, but so does the love. Sometimes one is stronger than the other.  And at any given time which one is dominant  sometimes out of our control....
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 04:11:47 PM by browneyedgirl »
Tony Repola 07/20/66 03/29/09
I know you are fishing in the oceans and streams of heaven

jasonkl

  • nospam
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 09:29:29 PM »
(((((((((((((((((Helene)))))))))))))))))) ((((((((((((((((((Pam))))))))))))))))))))

I don't know of forgiveness, I have not been able to forgive myself. But not because I could not save her, She was living in hell. The pain she lived with daily I can't even imagine. The only hope for relief is to allow a doctor to put you into a coma for seven days and even that only had 70% sucess rate. My guilt has to with how I treated her before she passed, the fact that I was nethier loving or understanding that night. I was in the next room when she passed, I might have well been a millon miles away, I could not save her. I will have to say to you both what has been said to me many times, we did the best we could with the information we had at the time.

You both feel guilt for not being there, for not having the chance to try or say goodbye. I can share with you my experience. When I checked on my wife the first time she was laying in a strange position, but she was breathing. I learned to check because she always feel asleep with food in her mouth. I tryed to lay her down she was unresponsive, which shoud have been a red flag, but my mind was else where at the time. She would always wake up when I moved her, this time she did not. About an hour later I went to check on her and same thing she was in some weird position, went to moive her again, but this time she was not breathing. I tryed to check her pulse but my heart was beating so hard and fast all I could feel was mine, so I grabed her blood presure cuff and her stethoscope (before she got hurt she was an emt). I put the cuff on her turned it on (automatic one she had blood presure issues) and used the stethoscope to find a heart beat. I dont know if you have ever listened to a heart beat through one before but it is very loud and hard most of the time, when I put it to her chest I heard nothing, I don't have the word to discrible the lack of noise or how it feels to hear nothing. I can tell you it is something I never what to hear or feel again. I droped the stethoscope and called 911. I told the operator she was not breathing and that there was no heart beat, he told me to get her on a hard surface and start cpr. I did what I was told, I can only tell you it was the most helpless feeling in the world doing cpr on a preson who you love and they  do not respond to the chest compressions. I did cpr for 10 minutes until the emts got here then they took over, they worked on her for ten minutes and then they said those words you don't ever want to here( we are sorry, we did every thing we could, we could not save her). Not being there or not being able to save them, I feel the pain it is the same, the guilt may be there for different reasons but I think it is still the same too.

I lost my baby bother 12 years ago. He was severly handicaped. Most of his brain was damaged or dead from a medical mistake at birth. He was not to live after the turned the ventaltor off, but he was a fighter and lived for an other 16 years. I could not save him either or take away his pain and I know he suffer alot of pain in his short life. I remember when I was about 11 he had a seizure so bad that he broke both his legs because his muscles contracted so hard and fast. While doing the surgry to set his legs the doctors cut out most of the muscles in his legs to keep it from happening again. I could not save or take away his pain. In my heart I know that there was nothing I could for him. It took me a long time to understand this.

I understand more than I wish to. I just wanted to share one more thing. The main reason for moving with my bother and his family was one day I came home from work and found my wife on the floor in the dinning room. She was passed out and I could not wake her up at first. I don't know how long she was there and she did not remember how she got there. That was the scarest moment up till that time.

 Sorry this is so long. I hope this helps or at least lets you guys know you are not alone. Helene your are not a bad preson, you are hurting. We all punish are selves when we think we could have/ should have done more. I hope the that some day we can all learn to forgive ours selves for things we can not control.

Thanks for listening
Jason
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 09:35:43 PM by jasonkl »

helene

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • My Dad
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 01:28:57 PM »
((((((((((((((((Pam))))))))))))))))))   ((((((((((((((((((Jason)))))))))))))))))))

Thank you both for reassuring me that I am not alone when it comes to feeling guilt about those whom we have lost and what we did and did not do. This is one situation where I wish I was alone because I wouldn't wish this hell on anyone!

Pam, I am so sorry about the tragic death of your brother. I have not read all your posts and so now I know more of what you have been through and are going through. Yeah: people have said that to me too about our deceased loved ones surely not wanting us to feel guilty but we do. I am so, so sorry about your brother! My family is riddled with addicts of various kinds so I can really relate to this. But no two deaths and tragic losses are alike. Each of our experiences are uniquely shattering and life altering and we are lucky to live through it, I think. Many days I wonder...how much longer for me? How much pain can one person be expected to deal with anyway?!

Jason, again, as with Pam, I say I can strongly relate to what you wrote although - again - I did NOT go through the gut & heart wrenching experience you did as you gradually and then suddenly lost your wife! I can relate because of how I was there with Lesley during so many of her seizures and some where she had food in her moth and I was so afraid she woudl choak! But, for me, always I could eventually succed in reviving my sister and I now know this was not the case for you and your wife although - my God!! - you tried so HARD to do so.  Your guilt also is all about 'not being there'. Whether we were not there at the time of death - as was the case for Pam and myself - or during the time leading up to that death - the guilt is equally as raw and deadly I think.

Thank you both from the bottom of my heart for sharing such painful and horrendous experiences of loss with me. I am starting to 'gear up' to tell the crux of WHY I am GUILTY regarding Lesley's death.  You see, I have not told you the whole story yet. (when does one ever do that anyway - tell the whole story, I mean!) BUT....there are certain facts that I can relay to you all that will cleary be my own indictment.

Thank you for helping me to gather the courage to continue to share. And thank you all for your ongoing love and caring of me.

With love,

Helene


Helene & Lesley

helene

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • My Dad
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 01:37:51 PM »
Jason,

I am also thinking about the tragedy of your dear baby brother who died 12 years ago after suffering from a severe disability still had an inner strength all his own to live longer than anyone ever thought possible. I believe that one  of the worst things in our lives is that awful helpless feeling we have when we cannot stop or take away the pain our loved ones are suffering from. We are helpless. We watch them suffering terribly and can do nothing. They die - whether in our presence or not - and we can do nothing. My heart goes out to you! Thank you again for sharing such painful memories.

Love,

Helene.


Helene & Lesley

helene

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • My Dad
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 01:48:18 PM »
Pam!! Please forgive me if I said the wrong thing about your brother!!!! I used the word 'addict' and I should not have done that. Please forgive me!!!!!!!!!!!  I was being very subjective. Thinking about my own family and even more specifically in all this - myself. An overdose does not necessarily mean addict. Again please forgive me. I ask forgiveness NOT because I am down on people who suffer from addictions because I'm one of them. I ask your forgiveness because I NEVER want to label anyone in any way.

With love,

Helen.


Helene & Lesley

browneyedgirl

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 04:25:51 PM »
Helene ~ no, I take no offense to the word "addict"...Tony WAS an addict....and that, you see, is why I suffer from so much guilt, we KNEW he had a problem, we knew there was something wrong - and it was like Oh...Tony's drunk again, or on the pills, and we didn't do enough....to help him or be there for him, so he died.  All alone, by himself, leaving behind an 8 year old son, which in itself has been a stuggle for my mother to raise him all the while trying to deal with her own grief and guilt......You may not know this but amount of people that are addicted and die from pill overdoses is mind boggling.....  

Jason ~ thank you for sharing your story.  As I continue on this journey - soon to be 3 years, it doesn't seem to amaze me that I am angry or mad or sad or whatever as it relates to my brother's death.  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 04:40:33 PM by browneyedgirl »
Tony Repola 07/20/66 03/29/09
I know you are fishing in the oceans and streams of heaven

jasonkl

  • nospam
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 10:26:11 PM »
((((((((((((((Helene))))))))))))

I will share anything I can help others who have travel this painful road. You are dealing with alot and to to be honest my sharing is a little selfish, the more I share the more it helps me too. So I thank you for allowing me to share my pain with you. I am sorry the post was so long, I started writing and could not stop. I guess I need to get that out.
Again thank you for listening and understanding. I wait to hear more about your sister and you. I have a feeling I will be able to relate alot to some of the caregiving.

Jason

helene

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • My Dad
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 09:21:50 AM »
Hi Pam and Jason,

Pam, I am relieved that you are not offended. Thank you for sharing such painful memories and your feelings about the loss of your brother Tony. My heart truly goes out to you and your family. The more I read about everyone's suffering here at Webhealing the more I realize how not alone I am. Guilt/regret is a terrible thing! Jason, I don't think your post was too long at all. I'm glad that the memories poured out of you. That is what we need to do. Thank you for sharing. Thank you both for your love and encouragement.

I don't know where to begin with what happened with Lesley. I posted here once before about the nature of her seizures. She had a little know disorder which is called 'psychogenic seizures' or 'non-epileptic seizures'. These are not caused by epilepsy but rather by servere childhood repressed trauma. Lesley, like myself, also suffered from what they call 'dissociative amnesia' or, years of memory loss (next to no memory of childhood etc). Lesley's psychogenic seizures often happened during the night and resulted from what are called 'night terrors'. Some nights I would hear Lesley up above me suddenly running like mad across her apartment only to crash horribly into her apartment door and fall to the floor. Then the trashing about would start, the foaming of her mouth, clenched teeth, taught limbs. I would be there with her to try and keep her from injuring herself. Once the seizure was over, that was only the beginning. Then the moaning, sometimes screaming, and crying would start. This would often go on fir around 15 minutes that seemed like and eternity to me. Lesley sounded like a wild animal caught in a leg trap. Her agaony adn emotional pain was searing to me but I could never get through to her no matter what I did - even when I held her in my arms while she went through it, which I often did. Nothing helped her. Lesley was completely alone in her pain. She, I believe, had gone back in time to when she was a tiny child and was being abused. This time was probably even begfore she was too young to speak or have language yet. These times were terrible for both her and myself. Once the moaning abated, Lesley would gradually start to come out of the whole thing and she was left completely disoriented. She forgot what day it was, where she lived, what she had done earlier that day, any appointments or plans she ad, everything. She would often lie in her bed for a day or two after that and sometimes she would have migraines. Anyway, I won't go on much longer right now. I just want to say that, as time went on when Lesley lived at our house (it was 3 years) she got progressively worse. The seizures became more and more frequent and more violent. Nights would go by when my husband and I would dread going to sleep wondering when the next ungldly CRASH would be adn if Lesley would even survive it. She was supposed to take medication for her seizures (but, as I learned after her death, it was the WRONG medication - medication for epileptic seizures is no good for those suffering from psychogeneic seizures but I ddid not know that then and put pressure on Lesley to just take her f-ing medication. I was haggard and tired and didn't konw what to do. Part of my guilt is about this.) I also begain to wonder: is the fact that Lesley is living in the dame house as me triggering her seizures? Do I somehow remeind her of the trauma that she suffered becuase we are family? Did I help to kill Lesley in the end by inviting her to live in our house? These questions plague me to this day.) More later if you all can put with this. I know it's long and tedious.

Love,

Helene


Helene & Lesley

Doug1222

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Keep on keeping on.
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 10:38:18 AM »
More later if you all can put with this. I know it's long and tedious.

Thank you very much for sharing that, Helene. I'll listen whenever you want to share more.
((((((((Helene)))))))))
It's important to get stuff out. We're the only ones who know which stuff we need to get out, I think. I just posted some more about things that have bothered me. I have some of the same type of guilt. Mine's mostly after my dad died when I did the best I could with what I knew and had. I think most of us do the best we can at the time.

Thank you for sharing.
Doug

browneyedgirl

  • nospam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
    • View Profile
Re: Dream Ghost
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 12:40:16 PM »
(((helene)))

((((jason))))

(((Doug)))

I just hope Tony forgives me.  I wasn't the kindest person to him near the end.  And it makes me feel like a piece of s***.  He needed love, compassion and understanding, none of which I offered. None.
Tony Repola 07/20/66 03/29/09
I know you are fishing in the oceans and streams of heaven