Author Topic: DON Thinking Of You  (Read 3613 times)

Dottie (Tammie's Mom)

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DON Thinking Of You
« on: June 19, 2011, 02:17:59 PM »
I don't come to this board much anymore because I found it difficult to say how I felt without being worried of hurting someone else's feelings.

When we are grieving we do at times need to say what is on our mind and bothering us, we all grieve differently. We all feel differently, but we have all lost a child.

Doesn't matter how the loss happened to each of us it is the very hardest thing we will ever face in our lives.

As for addiction, my sweet daughter died from an overdose of pain pills, they were prescribed by a Dr. but she still took too many and OD'D : Tammie, graduated college with dual majors, worked, owned her own home, had friends and was an active productive member of society, but she was still an addict.

Remember when you say addict it truly is a disease like cancer it usually takes your life. But an addict and a CRIMINAL are to me two different things. There are people that are life time criminals, I know they have parents that may or may not love them, this is different from an addict. I will admit I have thought and said exactly what Don said more than once, WHY MY CHILD and not some criminal useless person. Sorry but I would almost bet each one of you has thought it if you will be honest with yourselves and others. Of course no one is here to intentionally hurt someone else, but we should be able to say what we are feeling without being repremanded for it.

WE ARE ALL GRIEVING parents each with our own set of feelings but all with a broken heart, I know Don would NEVER say anything to intentionally hurt anyone, it is too bad some get offended so easily and take every comment personally.

We should be as supportive as possible. Don is dealing in HIS OWN WAY with the loss of his Son, So let him vent if he needs to, isn't that what this board was suppose to be for. None of us is so perfect in our grief that we haven't VENTED, and we should if we need to.

Sorry for going on, but I was hurt to see Don made out to be hurting anyone on purpose.

I remember the old board from years ago, so comforting, everyone really seemed to care. Too bad that all changed, it saved my life 6 years ago.

Don, email me anytime privately. I am here to always listen,

HUGS,
Dottie

Always thinking of our GREAT KIDS !!!!!!

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Re: DON Thinking Of You *****SENSITIVE******
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 06:30:45 AM »
Hi Dottie!
I was so happy to see that you had posted as you were one of the original people on the board when I first joined after Adam passed almost five years ago and since you haven't posted in a long time I missed you!
I would like to take the time to comment on your 6/19 posting and please understand Dottie and to all who read it this is not with any malicious intent; my intent is to help to claify and soothe some feelings that have been ruffled.

I think that your posting was meant to come to the defense of Don and that some of your comments could un/intentially inflame some of the issues that are already arisen due to some different perspectives of a few words that Don chose in his post.

I think that you are so right when you say that we are all grieving parents, that we all have broken hearts, that we should all be as supportive as possible.

However this is where some of my feelings & thoughts differ from yours.

Addiction can cause some people (like my son Adam) to behave outside the limits of our laws and perform criminal activities; even get arrested and be incarcerated like he was. So there is no getting around it, my son due to his addiction & his actions, became a criminal. Once involved in the criminal justice system, someone performing a job like Rebecca does, was assigned to his case. One of my greatest hopes and desires would be is that the criminal justice system and the people that work within it are all trained with sensitivity and see the people as people; not as the criminal addict, the criminal rapist etc. We have a convicted rapist in our family. He is someone's son, brother, grandson, nephew, cousin ... he spent his time behind bars for 8 years, 4 years of probation, forevermore lost a lot of the freedoms that we as the non-convicted enjoy. I love him, not what he did many years ago. So I cannot in my heart agree that any/all/or only certain criminals are unworthy of my love, friendship, empathy or their life is devalued compared to anothers'.

I can truly say that I never felt "Why my child" not someone else's so you would lose your bet with me Dottie. My heart and personal beliefs are such that I would never want anyone else to suffer what I have had to endure in my lifetime. I know from lots of reading on grief & dying, posts, etc. that it is not uncommon for people to think that or even say that but for me personally it is an unfathomable, distasteful thought.

We as human beings are social creatures and do not live alone. We live in socieities that have rules. Even our grief board is a small community that does have rules, hence Tom and Terry oversee the board and try to help realign the board when it teeters off the boundaries. Don said what he did, Wendy responded to some of his words and I did too. Perhaps there were more people that expressed it in private messages or emails, I truly do not know as I am not priivy to them.

I believe that Don loves his Tiger Donny with all his heart and soul. I believe that Don is a grieving, heartbroken father the moment his son passed. I do feel badly that Don feels as he does (wanting to leave the board). However, you do take a risk when you vent personal feelings and say things that affect others. I do not think it was Don's intent to cause controversy, however his choice of words I felt were not appropriate for the board. Even the explanation fell short for me. I am a RN and in my career I have seen all walks of life, probably like Rebecca and Don had/have seen in their chosen professions. I don't draw a line professionally or personally on my feelings. I attempt to not be judge or jury on anyone for it is my heartfelt belief that we as human beings with our frailities are limited creatures and I leave it up to G-d.

Dottie-I feel that your posting while supportive of Don was taking a jab at the board when you say that years ago .... it was comforting, people seemed to care....too bad that all changed. I think that this is still the intent of the board and that Tom's vision and Terry's guidance has not altered from it's original vision.

I believe that the postings by Wendy and myself were not malicious, it was a differing of opinion and it was explained simply without malintent. I believe that in the past we did see some petty, malicious postings however Dena and Tom caught it quickly, posted their feelings on it and at times even felt the need to remove some purposely hurtful postings or postings that were perceived to be deliberately inflammatory.

I like the fact that Tom and our moderator Terry monitor the board and try to as sensitively as possible "put out the fires" so to speak in a reasonable, sensitive fashion.

It is nice to read that you are willing and desiring of Don to email you privately and you open your heart and time to him to listen. People on this board can develop relationships with others that extend beyone the board however that does not mean when it doesn't that people are uncaring and not willing to be an active listening particpant. I say that because I have concerns that perhaps the newbies to the board will be concerned about these dialogues and wonder if the board is the right "fit" for them or that there are cliques on the board. You wrote that the board saved your life 6 years ago. I agree that almost 5 years ago when I joined it was very good for me too. I will never forget the words that Danielle's Dad John wrote to me when I entered my very 1st post. He said: "Paula welcome to a club that you never willingly would have joined. You have been drafted into this journey". With those words I felt that oh my gosh there is a place where people understand as I could see the pain and anguish on my "civilian family and friends" who were at a loss on how to comfort me. I hope that the comfort I felt and continue to feel will always be there for all on the board.

Dottie-your Tammie is never fogotten by me and once again I would like to tell you that I so appreciate all the hard work that you have done to introduce better laws to protect all of our children.

Peace & Blessings,
Paula
XO Love to all my sisters & brothers-in-grief XO
Wishing you all peaceful moments, signs from your Angels & many blessings

Katie--Adam's Mom

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Re: DON Thinking Of You
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 10:06:10 AM »
Dottie,

It's nice to see you.  You and Tammy are always in my heart.  I understood exactly what you are saying here and I agree.

Much love,
Katie

Paula,

You will not find me feeling sorry for the parents of my son's murderer, or for the murderer.  They have engaged in unthinkable cruelty toward my child and my family.  We have repeatedly been told by them through the press, the courts and in personal letters to my home that this is all God's plan to get the killer back on track.  They have decided that my son was not worth living but that the murderer still has "a purpose", thus God killed my child (must be nice to think one deserve's their own God-given personal sacrificial lamb!).  After all they have put us through and the constant insulting remarks about our son, the working the system to get out of jail free, etc..., and so much more, I know the scum killer is not worthy of life, at least not out in society where he continues to break the law.

Perhaps you were not aware that we have parents on this board whose children died as a result of rape and it's horrific effects.  I don't think that it is appropriate to use a relative who committed rape to illustrate your point.  I have been raped and while I suppose the rapist's family cares for him, I do not and certainly don't feel the need to feel anything towards him other than hate.  I can't imagine how it feels for a parent whose child died as a result of a rape.


My feelings towards the rat bastards who have cause such harm and death to my son, my family, me personally and those I love, are my feelings.  I have been on *that* side of the court, the painful side where the victims sit.  Expecting those of us who have this experience to be sensitive to others while not exhibiting the same sensitivity  to us makes little sense to  me.

    I hope this is taken in the spirit intended...to perhaps better explain the feelings that come when your child is the victim of a violent crime.

Much love,
Katie

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Re: DON Thinking Of You
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 10:25:04 AM »
((Katie))
This can go so far off the beaten path and go tit for tat and certainly that is not my intention. I was a victime of sexual abuse, so I understand rape PERSONALLY. My daughter was raped so I understand it from a Mother's point of view as well.
I don't feel that I was wrong for mentioning some personal facts (e.g. rape). What I took from Don's comments and perhaps even Dottie's is that in their mind addiction (criminals) are to be forgiven and accepted because it is something that they can understand but when it comes to other type of criminals they will not. My son died from an OD but I was told by the D"s that he was possibly murdered because his car was clean of the "kit" and word on the street was that he was NOT alone. So I too understand what it is like to feel frustated when you think that your child or know that your child died at the hands of another. When I questioned about legal action against the "known" parties, I was told that it was cost me lots of money, time and be very emotional with a zero outcome for me due to the legal loopholes. I don't like it, but since it is what it is and the outcome will not bring Adam back or even those contributing to his demise "to justice" I chose to let it go. I applaud someone like Dottie who has labored hard to get laws passed to honor her late daughter and to help other parents not find themselves in the same position that she was in.
No offense taken. I am always happy to have a dialogue that is open and with the intention to clear the air in a healthy way.
With love,
Paula
XO Love to all my sisters & brothers-in-grief XO
Wishing you all peaceful moments, signs from your Angels & many blessings

Katie--Adam's Mom

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Re: DON Thinking Of You
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 10:53:24 AM »
Dear Paula,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Each of us may take different feelings away from tragedies and life situations.  We are each entitled to our feelings and no one knows the back stories which may influence our feelings and beliefs.

As I am ducking thunderstorms, again!, I hurried to post my last reply and neglected to add a few things.  I and my family have endured not only the disrespect and insults slung at us, but also the praise heaped upon the killer by his family.  They call him *Christ-like* in their efforts to free him from the bondage of prison (he's already out after working the system to get time cuts for a college degree the prison gave him--imagine he got bonus points for killing a college student.  it's a messed up system).  Not every parent of a murdered child has this same experience, but so many, too many, of us do.  It adds so many layers of grief to the anguish we all understand too well.  Even the suggestion that violent criminals should not be judged, etc... is painful to hear.  I do feel it my right and responsibility to judge, and hold my son's killer accountable.  He took an innocent young man's life and has no remorse, only contempt for my son and my family because we insisted on justice (the small measure it was).


I wish you moments of peace along the way.  The missing is so hard.

Love,
Katie

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Re: DON Thinking Of You
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 11:51:15 AM »
((Katie))
I'm so sorry for your pain and as another bereaved Mom I wish my love, cyberhugs and prayers could ease the way for you.
We all are entitled to feel as we do, just when we act or say anything there can always be an anticipated reaction (action=reaction).
Sometimes people do comment on a posting, sometimes people do not and other times it takes on a life of its own. I hope that in the very near future this all calms down. I think that you & I are agreeing to disagree (?) and that it is OK between us and for that I am grateful.
Peace and Blessings,
Paula
XO Love to all my sisters & brothers-in-grief XO
Wishing you all peaceful moments, signs from your Angels & many blessings

Dottie (Tammie's Mom)

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Re: DON Thinking Of You
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 04:10:05 PM »
WOW, not expecting all this !!! I thought I said life time criminals ??? We all know who they are. But take it as you please.

Katie, glad you understood what I meant.

I was defending Don, and would again, I know he meant no harm.

As for the board I only came here to say Hi, to Don for Donny's Angel date as I had been out of town. Because the truth is it is for these reasons like this I don't come anymore. Too bad we ALL are not allowed to say what we are feeling, but whatever.

I know I haven't been this upset or hurt since I left the board and I WILL NOT BE BACK.

Especially after Tom's remark, I had to look up what it meant, WOW Tom, really hurtful and nasty, I thought that wasn't allowed. Only by some.????

I am glad some of you are able to be so loving and forgiving, I am doing what I can to make Dr's more responsible, but with our screwed up health care system it isn't easy. That is how I deal with my grief.

To all of you I wish you well, all you sweet forgiving people who can use your words to dish out but can't tolerate another opinion. Whatever !!

I would NEVER wish a child to die or for any parent to have to grieve, but YES there are some waste of society criminals who can not be rehabilitated that I wish could trade places with my daughter , sorry but I feel it.

By stating selfish people, I meant those that want all to feel as they do, and that can never happen. When we don't they attack.
We all feel and grieve differently.

Sorry Tom, I think you were out of line with your hurtful words.

Dottie Tammie's Mom



Tom

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Re: DON Thinking Of You
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 05:56:26 PM »
This is yet another attacking post from you.  I think you should take a break from this forum for a while and think about things.

Tom

WOW, not expecting all this !!! I thought I said life time criminals ??? We all know who they are. But take it as you please.

Katie, glad you understood what I meant.

I was defending Don, and would again, I know he meant no harm.

As for the board I only came here to say Hi, to Don for Donny's Angel date as I had been out of town. Because the truth is it is for these reasons like this I don't come anymore. Too bad we ALL are not allowed to say what we are feeling, but whatever.

I know I haven't been this upset or hurt since I left the board and I WILL NOT BE BACK.

Especially after Tom's remark, I had to look up what it meant, WOW Tom, really hurtful and nasty, I thought that wasn't allowed. Only by some.????

I am glad some of you are able to be so loving and forgiving, I am doing what I can to make Dr's more responsible, but with our screwed up health care system it isn't easy. That is how I deal with my grief.

To all of you I wish you well, all you sweet forgiving people who can use your words to dish out but can't tolerate another opinion. Whatever !!

I would NEVER wish a child to die or for any parent to have to grieve, but YES there are some waste of society criminals who can not be rehabilitated that I wish could trade places with my daughter , sorry but I feel it.

By stating selfish people, I meant those that want all to feel as they do, and that can never happen. When we don't they attack.
We all feel and grieve differently.

Sorry Tom, I think you were out of line with your hurtful words.

Dottie Tammie's Mom



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