Author Topic: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?  (Read 4293 times)

patchoulipenny

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FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« on: February 23, 2009, 03:26:05 PM »
hello, i found this tonight, looking for help. my name is Penny, i'm married to a bi-polar, we are proud of our 3 kids and siamese cats. life is a constant yo-yo between my husband's and my own mental health probs, although we do surprisingly well, the last 6 months has been very hard.
my story is my dad hung himself a few weeks before my 4th birthday, in our garage leaving no note. My mother seemed to switch off to me, was always angry and smacking so in a way I lost both parents at once. he left no note but i have always believed my mother knew why. She died on the 3rd of December a cupla months back without ever 'telling'. My 3rd Siamese kitten Maya, was run down outside our house when she was just 7 months. She was my youngest daughters birthday present and you could find nothing wrong to say about her, a truly unique cat she was. We live on a cul-de-sac, this should never have happened it was so unfair for her to die so young, for my 7 year old to learn about death with her 1st pet, especially as we have an old girl whom I swear as immortal but thats another story. ;)
The point I'm trying to make is i grieve more for maya than my own mother -- does anyone have any theories on this?  I have heard that some children with autistic traits are like this and that children who have been through an early trauma can show signs of autism - used to refuse to speak 4 days. i had the classic hyper sensitivity to noise, smells and crowds,  and still do and my social skills sometimes just seem to annoy everyone. ???
I also believe that either due to extremely sensitive hearing, my early tragedy or a combination of both caused me to have a lifelong sleep disorder - it consists of 2 parts, the 1st being vivid, horrific nightmares, some of which i can still remember I had at age 4 and several a night. I dream in full colour film quality, realistic 3D. The 2nd part is the slightest noise will wake me - at age 28 I discovered ear plugs which have reduced all of this hugely, verifying the hearing sensitivity but I still NEVER get through more than 4 hours of unbroken sleep.
I have Fibromyalgia and depression which is 90% of the time controlled really well with paroxetine.  I had rage issues which are now also perfectly controlled with Quetiapine but sometimes 'episodes' occur.

so i guess i'm trying to find out if anyone knows anything about dreams being caused by the suicide of a parent of a young child. From as far back as i can remember, I've dreamt of tornadoes and tsunami's, armageddon, abandonment dreams and so on.

thank you for reading. :)

sevenofwands

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 03:49:43 PM »
Penny:

You have been through a lot of trauma in your life, and as you relate in your post, the effects are with you still.  It is very sad that you were subjected to such events at such a young age. 

You say your mother was always "angry and smacking", and it looks like she turned her anger on you, projected her anger onto you, and that is inexcusable.  (I have patience with many things, but I have zero tolerance for abuse of any kind, be it verbal, emotional, mental or physical). As an infant and young child you in no way deserved such treatment. Whatever the reason for your father's suicide, it was certainly not your fault.  It is therefore hardly unusual or abnormal that you would not mourn your mother.  I certainly would not mourn anyone who abused me...
You have had a hard time in life, and yet you seem to be doing well, despite it all.

I would hope that you have had the help and support of a counsellor over the years.  You ask about your dreams.  I would hazard that these are more a result of the treatment meted out to you than anything else, and perhaps it is in some way beneficial to have these dreams, as a  sort of "clearing house".

I wish you peace, Penny, and hope that you now have a measure of happiness with your family, and the cats (my favourite animal!).

All the best
Seven





georgiapeaches

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 07:02:08 PM »
Dear Penny,
I agree with Seven, you have been through alot and you do sound like you can hold your own just fine. I have very vivid dreams just like you descibe but they are due to the medication I am on, I couldnt beleive those were the side effects. When the dreams arent scary they are so vivid I kind of enjoy them and miss them when I dont dream. Maybe thats sounds strange.  I wish you peace from what has happened years ago, you shouldnt have been treated like that. enjoy you family.

Georgia.
MOM                        JOHNNY
 

Luvinmike

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 08:54:05 PM »
Dear Penny;
     My heart filled up with compassion for you, your Mom and your Dad. What a hard and difficult  journey for you all. I am so sorry for your early losses. I am so glad you found this site. You belong here. Could you be mildly autistic- or traumatized, grief stricken at times I bet. It is an awful lot of challenging optimism. It is good to know you are healthy and resilient. That will help you. Thinking of you, and sorry for your pain. Terri

patchoulipenny

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 05:13:24 AM »
hello again and HUGE thanks to the 3 people who replied.  i can add a few details from then that might shed more light on things too. my mother's anger at my father was definitely aimed at the youngest with the least speech. she gave me a blood nose 1 day because being an obstinate scorpio and because i now know, having studied a bit of child psychology, that i was trying to take back control. anyhow, i refused to put my toys away (remember i was just 4, I know now that is way too young to expect a child to tidy a whole bedroom, I still help and supervise my 7 year old with hers!) so she scooped me and the toys together and flung us into the cupboard - i hit my nose on the shelf -blood everywhere.  Another time, she smacked me and I smacked back!!!  So I was walloped anywhere and everywhere, down the passage and sent to my room.  Later in life I tried to discuss this with my mother -- I became a single mom, had only her parenting skills to go by and realised I had taken my frustration out on my own oldest child at times.  I became determined to be a 100% better parent than my own mother had been - I wrote a letter to my oldest when she was 8 apologising to her for times I'd taken things out on her. She actually forgave me and told me she understood how hard it was for me (sometimes I went up to 5 days without food, as I only had enough for baby food)!!  We have since found out she is gifted!!   ;D  my pride and joy studying art in London.
At this stage I went into a childcare career and have broken the chain of abuse by learning to handle children without using pain or fear to control them.
When I did try to speak to my mother about this, she denied all and said my memory was messed up but I have since found out that my older sister remembers these incidents, because she hid away and kept out of it so she didn't get any of it.
My saving grace was when my mother remarried to a wonderful man who was/is brilliant with children - a natural teacher, never lifted a hand to me and my mother never did again with 'an adult witness' in the house.
There is so much more grief and tragedy in every year of my life I can not put it all down today.  One reason being, I slipped in the shower on the 29th of december and shattered my shoulder bones and many fractures down arm, had 2 ops on it and I'm still in the sling week 10 so typing is hard because it had to be my right shoulder and needless to say, I'm right handed!!
I realised my mother thought her parenting was the best, my sisters still agree to this day that smacking is the only way to discipline a child or dog or even a cat -- drives me nuts!!!  Anyway, I also realised I would never get an apology from her and if I kept hating her for it (I used to lie in bed at night as a teenager begging for her to die in the night!) I would become a bitter and twisted, lonely person so about 2 years ago, I forgave her in my head and heart, realising it was the only way she knew how to parent and that finding your husband hanging in the garage must have been a pure nightmare to her.
Terry I thank you for your compassion, I truly do as its not easily found. Georgia I have been on Fentanyl (Duragesic patches) for shoulder op and they made my dreams not nice at all. I usually love my good dreams and there are a handful a year, I know are important and I should heed.  I've also been through the withdrawal for this pain patch, known to be 100 times stronger than morphine over the last 2 weeks -- horrific, internet is filled with people in the same boat and withdrawal is very similar to heroin withdrawal i.e. HORRIFIC -- lesson learned here, never put a chemical into your body without fully researching it first!! LOL!!
I have an uncanny rapport with autistic kids (and babies) especially those with no language around 2 to 4 years (autistics), I have this same rapport with animals. I have done a lot of work with autistic children but find I get too emotionally involved in the family and have had bad problems with this too!  So now I do a breakfast club from home and work at the after school club at my youngests school.
Seven - very interested in your name as Tarot readings have given me uncanny results from all 4 times I've had one done by friends! :)  Thank you all for your wishes of peace too.
Have tried counselling but dunno if its that in UK they are nowhere near like what you see in films, they never really give advice, they just ask you to speak and keep on with 'how did/does that make you feel' -- all questions and never any bloody answers!!!
My husband, who must be one of the most eccentric men on the planet has/maybe doc still not sure mild bi-polar or at the very least drug resistant depression - we are now each others counsellors as both of us for 20 odd years have tried professional help but it just hasn't done anything for either of us. The horrors he has been through would also make you cringe but he now works with homeless teenagers and is brilliant at his job - he takes no orders from anyone, does all his way and if anyone doesn't like that then pity them! LOL! So it is interesting that we are in similar fields in helping children, especially those who are vulnerable.
another point, I was not allowed to attend my fathers funeral, we were not allowed to speak about it and I only found out the real story when I was 16 - it affected every relationship i had with a boy/man because I was extremely possesive and paranoid with serious abandonment issues. It was only after I'd been with my husband fro 5 years, that i/we finally understood and got over this with him reassuring me he wasn't going anywhere.  If he had not become the only person in the world who seems to understand me and my issues, I'd probably still be messing up relationships one after the other!
Unfortunately I can't work now with my shoulder as surgeons said, if you were at a desk it would be ok but playing with kids the risk is too great, i might fall and break all again.  My husband is also off work as he had a mental breakdown in Dec '07 - I shan't give details other than to say, a truly awful thing, of the worst kind was done to him when called up for compulsory airforce service in South Africa - he had completely blocked it but memories started resurfacing until they were full blown 'films' in a way.
over the last year he has tried every medicine possible but nothing works -- Lithium is his last resort but he's too scared to take it.
every day seems like we have not one problem/issue but usually several to deal with - when i can i'm going to write a book of our childhood years, how we came to be together and the further difficulties we've endured together - it wil be better than any soap/drama yet made, I'm quite sure but I always said I would wait until my mother died to write it as she would say it was all lies.

thank you all for your kind words, I enjoyed reading the responses immensely, I wish you all a happy day :) left hand VERY TIRED!!

Luvinmike

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 05:37:14 AM »
Penny- I hope you write that book. Even with your left hand.
 I have learned a few tips for at- home creative writing. You could copy and paste the post you just wrote and use that as a starting point for writing. I keep a journal by my bed and a small notebook in my car- then random notes saved on my computer. Also, as you can see by my # of posts, I like to write here. I don't have anything written that is even a poem or article- just ramblings, or grief attack notes. One time years a go I sent in a paragrah article on, "My most embarrassing moment," to Womens" Day- they did not publish it- but I got my first rejection letter!
Anyways, my kindest thoughts go out to you and your dear husband. Continue on a path together of health and healing, give each other a hug. You wil get better.  God Bless, Terri

Jap Jr

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 08:31:24 AM »
penny;

what a lot to share, have gone through and are still going through; I am so sorry that you had to go through that and be treated the way you were by your mother; I just cannot fanthom a child of 4 or anyone having to be treated like that.

I agree with terri - WRITE that book! then be sure and come back to this site and let us all know the title. I too, keep a journal, and paper and pencil by my bed, so I can write down my dreams or anything else that seems to pop into my head.  thought I could remember later in the day and write it down then, but I can't

pray for healing for you; not only your shoulder, but with the pain and suffering.

you and your husband seem very child oriented and want to help the "less fortunate" children; bless you both for that; to turn the tramas you have been through into positive for someone else.

peace to all of us today

Jap Jr's - Kay

sevenofwands

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 10:14:14 AM »
Hello Penny:

Reading your interesting post I note that you are a very "aware" person.  I am sure a lot of people would benefit from a book relating your experiences. 
Yes, my "moniker" on here, LOL.  The Lord of Valour in the suite of cards.  Not really a tarot fan, but I  found that over the past eight or ten years I had to call on "valour" so often, every minute of the day at one time.

As regards a counsellor it is very much a question of finding the right one.  I agree there is too much of a "softly softly" approach, but I also fear this is because often the "patient" does not want to hear what the therapist has to say, if it doesn't suit the patient.  I think when you are paying out good money to a therapist you do need to be given something concrete to work on. 

You say:
"When I did try to speak to my mother about this, she denied all and said my memory was messed up but I have since found out that my older sister remembers these incidents, because she hid away and kept out of it so she didn't get any of it. "

Yes, it must have been dreadful for her to find your father dead, undoubtedly a shock, but that did not and does not justify beating up a small child.  You have found it in you to forgive in your heart, and you have become a compassionate person. 

All the best
Seven







patchoulipenny

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Re: FATHERS SUICIDE, I WAS 4 - 43 NOW BUT STILL AFFECTED?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 01:13:55 PM »




Once again, thanks to all of you kind, lovely empathic people who have taken some of your prescious time to offer me your hand of friendship and healing!!! :)

My birthday is on Hallowe'en and this last birthday my husband bought me a journal from Nemesis Now who make exquisite pieces if you love fantasy, faeries etc. so i had started to write but when i broke my shoulder i could't write anymore but i will post an incredible dream i had of my father during my 6 week stint with Legionnaires Pneumonia last year-- don't even say anything about bad luck or anything!!!! lol!

and i do have a name for the book already which is a slight plagarism of the Jim Morrison biography - as in, my name for the book would be How on EARTH did they (or possibly we) get out alive?!?!

here is my dream:

This one is almost unbelievable but as you know, I have always had truly amazing dreams.  I believe now, that as they found out a few years back that I have a sleep disorder in which I spend most of the night in a very light REM sleep and not deep sleep that this is why I have and can remember such astounding dreams.  I also believe that some of my dreams can bring me true guidance and this is one of them!

It started out that I was one of a group of very ancient vampires – the feeling and look of the dream instantly told me this was ‘one of those dreams’ (there is an ancient aspect to them as if this all happened hundreds of years ago) – in these dreams I have control of the dream and my thoughts and can manipulate the dream – this is called Lucid Dreaming and is quite some talent to have! So anyhow, all of a sudden what looked like a TV aerial fell off a roof near us and impaled our leader through his right hand, he went over to a river I knew was the Thames and let his blood pour into the river – at this point I flew up into the air and could see his blood fan out in 3 different directions as if I was as high as a satellite.  His life blood brought back to life everyone from the past that has ever died!  They all came from the main rivers of the earth not like zombies but just looking as they had done before they died.  So I took control of the dream and said, “If this is true, I want to see my Dad”.  After a while, he came walking out of the mist towards me, in his Forces uniform just like in one of the photos of him.  I was told by our leader that this was a special exception and we were allowed just one hour together so all we did was just hold each other and cried tears of joy at being allowed this meeting.  I think due to my being so young when he died that my memories and imagination could not add any more details to this.  After an hour, he just faded away and my arms were empty.  Then out of the mist walking in single file and in order of age, came all the Siamese cats we have ever owned!  Chang 1, Chang 2, little Tuan who only survived a few days with us before he died from eating snail pellets, then Nikki and then Kahn.

I am very glad to say Sasha our oldest was not at the end of the line!!!  Since I was a little girl, I have always found great solace in cats and have always been told I have an almost creepy rapport with them – I have always, when I’m down just held onto one of the cats and sobbed into their fur.

I told Byron about my dream and I was fine about it until about an hour after Zoe had gone to school and now have been crying ever since – it has been hard typing this but I believe as therapeutic as my cats are to me.  I don’t feel depressed at all just like I am still grieving all these years on, can’t believe how long it lasts!

Then I got an email from XXX this morning saying how much she is thinking of me and that I should curl up with one of the cats!!!  Then while I was crying, little Maya, who had been haring around like a mad thing, came and curled up right into my neck, with her head laid down on my shoulder!  She is now on the left of the laptop now (I’m writing from bed) and Casper is on the right!

i finally found such a wonderful closure over my dad's suicide by having this dream little was i to know that our sweet Maya was soon to join the end of the line.  but the morning my step dad phoned to say my mother had died, i had just dreamt that Maya was talking to me, telling me she was fine and not to worry.  in fact my cats 'follow' me in a lot of dreams and i always wonder how they manage to travel across cities etc. lol! i love all cats big, wild and small too - the night i had Zoe an African Lynx ran in front of our car - we thought we must have imagined it until there were several other sitings in the area - they put it down to that about 8 years back, keeping wild cats was banned in England and it's surmised some people just released them - there is huge forest in this area with plenty of prey too. so we joke now that it is Zoe's totem spirit who showed itself to us!

home is tense at the mo - we have an old friend who is schizophrenic visiting and he is a bad influence on my husband as he drinks cider ALL day long so my husband has drank too which he shouldn;t with his meds and aaaaaahhhh!  just hate these times when you could cut the air with a knife!!

one thing, i was never angry with my father for committing suicide, i felt for and understood his actions completely - but have you noticed people who have not suffered depression ever just cannot grasp why you can't 'just snap out of it' or 'why don't you count your blessings?' that one really bugs me! lol!
i'm also not angry with my mother anymore - i was for a LONG time and dreamt EVERY  night of ways to kill her and actually brutally beating her to death, i'm ashamed to say - this lasted for about 5 years!! but 1 thing i have learned is there is nobody who can heal you, you are the only one who can.  :D

that's my ramble for the night, peace and happiness to all of you and i would like, if you don't mind to tell me what journey brought each of you who've replied, to this group.  xx


hope you all have a good day and enjoy my dream! you might have noticed i 'talk' a lot by now! lololol! even with 2 fingers
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 01:35:09 PM by patchoulipenny »